In this interview from Fraud Fight Club III, we explore their different vantage points about how AI will impact fraud detection, and why they still arrive at the same conclusion about where humans fit in.
Frank McKenna is Chief Fraud Strategist at Point Predictive and author of the Frank on Fraud blog. Marc Evans is a detective, Certified Fraud Examiner, and founder of Fraud Hero, with 14 years in law enforcement. Frank tracks fraud across trillions of dollars in originations. Marc shows up at the dealership.
In this interview from Fraud Fight Club III, we explore their different vantage points about how AI will impact fraud detection, and why they still arrive at the same conclusion about where humans fit in.
The number I haven't stopped thinking about: Frank told me that up to 70% of early payment defaults in auto lending contain fraud in the application — usually falsified income or employment. And most of it never gets called fraud. It gets coded as credit risk and written off. "It's never called fraud," he said. "It's called early payment default." The industry is absorbing billions in losses that aren't showing up in any fraud report.
This matters because the defense against first-party fraud is fundamentally different from identity theft or synthetic identity fraud. By the time a lender recognizes the pattern, the vehicle is gone.
Frank's hot take: generative AI will expand the scope of what fraud teams can do, which will create more demand for analysts, not less. "There's a lot of fear that generative AI is going to eliminate the fraud analyst. I think it's going to do the exact opposite. What we're going to see is a lot more get hired."
Marc arrives at the same conclusion from a different direction. The bad guys get access to new tools before the good guys do, and they have no limits on how they use them. No single tool closes that gap permanently. What does: knowledge, education, and understanding how fraud actually happens at the human level. "Fraud is not just a tech problem. It's a human problem."
Neither of them is arguing against technology. They're both arguing that technology without human judgment leaves something critical on the table.
The most functional version of lender-law enforcement coordination Frank and Marc described is not a platform. It's a phone number. Frank pointed to a program in Houston where a detective networked directly with car dealerships and would dispatch a squad car on a personal call if someone suspicious was in the showroom. Manual, but it worked.
Marc has been on the other side of that call. His department would show up at dealerships, sometimes before the buyer arrived, to verify documents, cross-check IDs against DMV records, and stop vehicles from leaving the lot. The recurring pattern: if someone is committing fraud at one dealership, they're likely doing it at several.
What blocks a more systematic version? Frank cited two things: data privacy constraints around sharing PII on someone who might not actually be committing fraud, and the liability exposure of a false positive resulting in an arrest. The informal networks work precisely because they're built on trust and direct verification, not automation.
The explainability problem in fraud is partly technical, partly a communication challenge. Marc's framing: to explain a fraud determination in court to someone with no fraud background, you need to point to specific, concrete discrepancies. A font inconsistency. A dollar amount that doesn't reconcile across documents. A driver's license number with no DMV record. The more specific, the better.
Frank's diagnosis of why legacy fraud scores fall short: most are limited to three pre-programmed reason codes written to cover thousands of use cases in seven words or fewer. The result is language too generic to be useful in a legal or compliance context.
Generative AI changes this. A model that can articulate why a specific application looks risky, in plain language calibrated to the audience, produces a different kind of evidence than a three-character reason code ever could.
Frank McKenna is Chief Fraud Strategist at Point Predictive and author of the Frank on Fraud blog. He has spent his career building data-driven defenses against first-party fraud and application fraud in consumer lending.
Marc Evans is a Certified Fraud Examiner, active law enforcement detective, and founder of Fraud Hero. With 14 years in the field, he brings a street-level view of how fraud is actually committed and how knowledge transfer can disrupt it.
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